Curse

Magikarp · Apr 20, 2008, 12:21 AM // 00:21

sounds to me like they're going to ruin gws more...

(if splittings the case)

Darkobra · Apr 20, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

sounds to me like they're going to ruin gws more...

(if splittings the case)

In which way would the segregation of the skills ruin the game?

Celestial_Kitsune · Apr 20, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

By splitting you mean that some skills will be PvE and some will be PvP or that each skill will have two different functions: one for PvE and one for PvP?

mrmango · Apr 20, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

PVE players will have to find something new to whine at for losing at something not that hard, and PVP players can role their eyes more.

Magikarp · Apr 20, 2008, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmango

PVE players will have to find something new to whine at for losing at something not that hard, and PVP players can role their eyes more.

you mean both pve AND pvp will be looking for separate skill balance solutions in their own realm if there was a split.

stop being so childish and biased. if you play pvp only, thats good and great for you, but tbh, its the pvp community's skill abuse and complaining of said skill abuse that gets us these huge sweeping nerfs.

whats bad about splitting pve and pvp's skills? simple..

not everyone.. and my that i mean most... most people play BOTH pve and pvp... *cough* myself and all of my alliance... everyone i've ever pretty much known ect... splitting the two would be like... let me make this more concise..

theres two McDonalds in your town. you like that because you can have one closer to your home, while the others at your job, school, ect..

you love Big Macs... which you can get at both McDonalds... of course, right?

now imagine two menus at McDonalds.

McD's gets a new group of prices every X term, to reflect inflation, due to people making more money. imagine money meaning skill use/builds.

if each of the two menus were reflecting different economies/communities... the two menus would be different. sort of like pve and pvp.

one McDonalds gets rid of the Big Mac. now you have to remember that, plus, its an inconvenience when you're used to being able to get it from either. now you have to drive across town to get it.

this could (easily) happen to all of the menu items/prices. imagine that in pvp/pve splitting. you'd have to remember 2 of every skill, what now works where, how, and how well in both realms, and of course the risk of not being able to use some skills at all due to the level of nerfing. like say they revert WY! in pve, but its the same in pvp...

thats basically the reality of splitting the game for those that do both. it'd be like making us learn how to play two separate games... IF we even feel like doing that after the split.

Sleeper Service · Apr 20, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

(...)

whats bad about splitting pve and pvp's skills? simple..

not everyone.. and my that i mean most... most people play BOTH pve and pvp... *cough* myself and all of my alliance... everyone i've ever pretty much known ect... splitting the two would be like... let me make this more concise..

theres two McDonalds in your town. you like that because you can have one closer to your home, while the others at your job, school, ect..

(...)

If people are getting confused about just which Mcdonalds they are entering then perhaps the issue is with them.

http://www.trifter.com/Practical-Tra...he-World.35517

you KNOW you are going into mcdonalds. The system is the same, the base the same, just read the damn menu. takes what...? 20 seconds?

sheesh.

Celestial_Kitsune · Apr 20, 2008, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Would it really be that difficult? I think having a separate function for PvP and PvE for each skill is fine. The skills will have similar functionality in PvP and PvE and will be easy to remember. Having two descriptions will add more freedom to balance. PvPers will not hear any more QQing of PvEers and the system will open new possibilities to make PvE more balanced. Ursan will be nerfed and skills of less desired professions in PvE will be buffed. If this will be done correctly, we might see a more balanced PvP and PvE.

Magikarp · Apr 20, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

If people are getting confused about just which Mcdonalds they are entering then perhaps the issue is with them.

http://www.trifter.com/Practical-Tra...he-World.35517

you KNOW you are going into mcdonalds. The system is the same, the base the same, just read the damn menu. takes what...? 20 seconds?

sheesh.

there are what? 700+ skills? theres about 30 items on a McDonalds menu. thanks, but no thanks.

Parson Brown · Apr 20, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

I must be the only one who doesn't see much of a problem here.

---A-Net says they will be taking PvE considerations into account when balancing skills GREAT!

The presence of an over-powered PvE skill does not mean that none of the other skills matter. I'm almost to Legendary Vanquisher and UB hasn't even touched my skillbar since I got it. I find it boring, so I don't use it. The existence of UB hasn't changed my game experience much at all. I have guildies who live by it, and if they find that fun, good for them. We even (gasp) play together sometimes. Them with UB and me with whatever build I feel like running.

Let people have fun for cryin' out loud. I wouldn't care if there was an actual "I Win" button in the game. No one is making me press it.

Gwmaster · Apr 20, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

since im mostly pve im quite glad about these changes..or future changes..and for the people complaining about ursan..make a QQ thread to Anet, and tell them to make a Pve skill called: "boom headshot": throw a projectile to target ursan player hitting him for 150dmg , there is a 50% chance of hitting the head, if you hit the head, player dies instantaneously, if the player dies because of boom head shot" party members become angered and deal 20% more damage and cause deep wound. you can use this skill 7 times in a row before the recharge time starts ( this is a monster skill) energy cost: 10 recharge:30 sec cast: instant. and there is your balance.

Avarre · Apr 20, 2008, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

In which way would the segregation of the skills ruin the game?

You'd end up with two games, ruining playerbase cohesion and alienating players that play PvE and PvP (ie: almost everyone who plays PvP at all), as well as making it much harder for new players to get into PvP from PvE, which is where the majority come from.

This entire change would do nothing more than make PvE balance worse in the end - the general skills are typically fair in PvE, and any skill that has to have limitations placed upon it is going to end up far more ridiculous. So if you have to have an entire skillset purely for PvE, you can bet it's going to be a giant one-dimensional gimmick.

ensoriki · Apr 20, 2008, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

In which way would the segregation of the skills ruin the game?

for the pve players who want variety and change, they will not get that anymore.
For those who play both pve and pvp, they then have to memorize the different version of a skill its pve version and its pvp version.
pvp gets RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up because now theres an even higher learning curve, you go into pvp and every skill you know could make no sense to you anymore.
so pvp then just completely dies from lack of new blood.

Sab · Apr 20, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Splitting is just a shortsighted approach that reduces QQ without actually fixing anything.

LifesRestorer · Apr 20, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

here's a shocker...

not everyone, especially the casual players... get this... own all the games.

anet doesnt even factor those people in at all. not to mention, SY! revolves around a rep title, which is even MORE of a turn off for the non-pvper/casual pve'ers

Why on earth would you try and cater more towards people who have bought only one of the 3 games that your company releases? beggars can't be choosers. If you want a skill from a campaign that you don't own, then either go and buy the campaign or deal without it. It's absolutely rediculous that you think it's fair that people have the right to QQ about such a thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

you just said it yourself? so, in example, you said WY! is junk, which it is... if someone doesnt own factions, theres goes the already better solution of WY! (sy!), not to mention, just because YOU think 50K rep isnt a big deal, someone else does. a lot of people do.

also, i know tons of casual players who play HM, they just still aren't as involved or play as often as the more advanced players is all. another unfair accusation.

also.. you can ursan with rank 6 with almost no problem at all. thats one run through EotN+book for that title.. idk what game you play were you have to have r10 for it to even be effective...

just like you countered an argument and then used the exact same argument to try and make your flawed point... Just because you think a run though EotN is no problem at all, doesn't mean others feel the same way... O C WUT I DID THAR??????

Carinae · Apr 20, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Splitting is just a shortsighted approach that reduces QQ without actually fixing anything.

QFT. I agree wholeheartedly.

Magikarp · Apr 20, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

Why on earth would you try and cater more towards people who have bought only one of the 3 games that your company releases? beggars can't be choosers. If you want a skill from a campaign that you don't own, then either go and buy the campaign or deal without it. It's absolutely rediculous that you think it's fair that people have the right to QQ about such a thing.

just like you countered an argument and then used the exact same argument to try and make your flawed point... Just because you think a run though EotN is no problem at all, doesn't mean others feel the same way... O C WUT I DID THAR??????

what the hell are you talking about?

he mentioned the effectiveness of a said skill based on reputation. if you could get to r10, you've passed r6, meaning r6 is much more feasible if you're taking that route. i didnt condone Ursan, i didnt enforce, or even reverberate an opinion on it. it was a reflection of another users quote. please stick to countering my post with actual subject matter based on my opinions/views, not my counter response to someone elses post....

also.. how can you possibly say that someone who only has 1,2, or 3 of the campaigns isnt as important????

they payed JUST AS MUCH for the games as we did, and that shouldnt mean that well over 90% of the skills for that campaign are junk thanks to rolling nerfs.

thats like saying because someone bought one car from Ford, as opposed to Rick who has had 4 Fords shouldn't get a transmission and axle to their vehicle...

Crom The Pale · Apr 20, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

PvE and PvP ARE two seperate games, the fact that they share the same skills has been a problem since day one.

For those that play both, yes you would have to have a PvP template and a PvE template for each of your builds. But since builds that work in one should NOT work in the other it really shouldn't be a problem.

Why do so many PvP players think that a skill bar that works on a lvl 20 player fighitng another lvl 20 player should work exactly the same when fighting a lvl 30 monster? Or when your party is outnumbered 20 to 8?

What we need is 2 games where you can transfer your CHARACTER between the games, but not builds.

Magikarp · Apr 20, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

PvE and PvP ARE two seperate games, the fact that they share the same skills has been a problem since day one.

For those that play both, yes you would have to have a PvP template and a PvE template for each of your builds. But since builds that work in one should NOT work in the other it really shouldn't be a problem.

Why do so many PvP players think that a skill bar that works on a lvl 20 player fighitng another lvl 20 player should work exactly the same when fighting a lvl 30 monster? Or when your party is outnumbered 20 to 8?

What we need is 2 games where you can transfer your CHARACTER between the games, but not builds.

im sorry but i strongly disagree with this entire post....

Yichi · Apr 20, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

for the pve players who want variety and change, they will not get that anymore.
For those who play both pve and pvp, they then have to memorize the different version of a skill its pve version and its pvp version.
pvp gets RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up because now theres an even higher learning curve, you go into pvp and every skill you know could make no sense to you anymore.
so pvp then just completely dies from lack of new blood.

For once in my life, and I never expected to ever say this, I completely agree with you.

Magikarp · Apr 20, 2008, 06:14 AM // 06:14

its pretty much already happening Yichi. just look around, or go into lower newbie areas and talk to some of them..

i do.. and its beyond unattractive to them as to what is waiting for them endgame... imagine how much worse that future could be..